14 thoughts on “What If Israel Had Never Been Created?”

  1. I am curious about something, and I mean no offence to anyone – just trying to better understand this whole meess – but if so many in the Middle East have such problems with Israel as a state, what would they want to see happen to Israel now?

    It’s not like we can go back to 48 and undo creating Israel, and the situation is like it is, so what should be done about it? Dismantle the state of Israel and give the land back to Palestinians – but then where do the millions of Israelis go? And if that’s the solution, is that fair to the millions of Israelis that have been born since 48 and obviously cannot be blamed for the creation of the state? I’m certainly not justifying the creation of Israel or what they’ve done to Palestinians but there seem to be no easy solutions here.

  2. @curiois George: it’s very simple: the israeli come back to their country: russi,europe…

  3. Curious George is right: it is not simple. Sending people “back to their country” would amount to the same kind of cruelty the Palestinians suffered. What is needed is peace, that is: two states, no more terrorism, no more occupation. Answers to “what-if”-questions of this kind are nothing but rhetoric, because they offer no solution or real analysis whatsoever. What would have happened? We can never know, and it is of little importance.

  4. I agree with Curious George and Simcha. As right as Hughes might be about what the creation of Israel has done and what the world would look like had it not been created, trying to undo what’s been done would create nothing but more problems. Any real solution, if it is to be successful, must recognize Israel’s right to exist and its right to peace and security. Any other way of dealing with the problem is doomed to fail.

  5. Subzero, why can’t you think foreward?

    What would happen if arabs recognize Israel and stop considering her an ennemy?
    . The U.S. would not have any enemies in the Islamic World.

    2. There would be no Al-Qaeda Terrorist Network.

    3. Gasoline would be selling for less than $1 a gallon.

    4. There would have been no 9/11.

    5. There would be no USA Patriot Law.

    >Swifty: Do you know that 80% of Israelis immigrants were from Arab countries? So are you saying that you would welcome in Tunisia, Morocco, Algeria, Yemen thousands of jews? Yeah right, I bet!

  6. to bracha: Well, that has already been _officially_ proposed by the Arab League states in 2002 (http://www.al-bab.com/arab/docs/league/peace02.htm). Although, it’s obvious to people in the Arab World that the partition of Palestine in 1948 was a historical injustice, all they are asking for is a _just_peace_. The problem here is that Isreal insists on ignoring nearly all UN resolutions on the matter and hides behind a systematic US veto from condemnations and security council referrals. Why does Israel think it’s right to occupy the Golan hights, Sheba farms and large parts of Palestine as decided by the UN partition plan in 48?

    The easy answer to the actions of Israel is two-fold: arrogance and stupidity. Arrogance, because it’s currently very strong militarily and deplomatically thanks to the US “unconditional support”. Stupid, because Israeli are fighting a proxy war on behalf of the US to control the oil-rich region in the first place and to “fight Islam” as a second priority.

    Let’s go back a second for a subtle question: the partition plan of Palestine is a UN resolution, so why do Arabs think it was an injustice?

    Answer: We need to think about the context back in 1947 when the resultion was passed. Only 66 states voted, 33 for, 23 against and 10 abstentions. Obviously, 66 are not _all_ the World states, the UN was a 2-year old organisation, most importantly, the states most concerned about the question of Palestine were not represented in the UN and could not vote because they were under British/French/whatever colonialism, then finally the World was unfairly, but understandably, biaised by the sympathy to the Jewish people after WW2.

    -Imed

  7. Salam,

    What seems pretty nice about this discussion is that a very interesting question was asked: OK the damage is done, but what to do about it now?

    Having the Israelis “go back to their countries” is just not feasible. Just like some said, after 50 years of wars, it’s going to be pretty tough for an Israeli Jew to go back to live where his grand-father came from in Syria, Egypt or Lebanon. Although there are still some Jewish communities in Tunisia, Morocco and especially Iran, I’m sure it’s going to be rpetty tough for a country to absorb a sudden influx of a minority population. This does apply also to Russia, England and France, it’s a bit more acute in Arab countries because of the history of the conflict. Moreover, why would an Israeli leave a high standard of living in Tel Abib to live in a tent in Yemen?

    There seems to be a proposal by Colonel Al-Gaddafi for a one-state solution: Isratine (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isratine) which may appear shocking at first, but if you sleep on it, it seems to make a lot of sense. And according to (http://www.algathafi.org/medialeast/medialeast-en.htm), this does not seem a novel idea.

    The problem, again, is that Israel is in a very strong position thanks to US unconditional support and decided to ignore all forms of diplomacy to resolve the fundamental problem in the region. Tony Blair thinks that the root cause of the problem was the recent Hizbollah operation, I think it’s not: it’s UN resolution 171.

    The problem with the Israeli position is that it’s not sustainable. In 50, 100 or 200 years, the US won’t be in a situation to un-conditionally support Israel, the neighbouring Arab countries will raise littracy levels and get stronger economically and militarily. I think it’s time for Israelis to take advantage of their strength today to make good friends with their neighbours.

    We need to learn a lesson from history: The Moors have been kicked from Andalucia (Spain) after more than 7 centuries of strength and might. The other lesson is that they were kicked along with the Jews and lived together for centuries in a relative harmony in North Africa.. until 1948.

    -Imed

  8. The moors never belonged to Andalucia, they were not born in andalucia, they did not exist in Andalucia, they don’t pray to return to Andalucia in their daily prayers, their culture wasn’t born in Andalucia…if you see what I mean, if not, please, make an effort to learn about jewish history.
    I couldn’t check your link, but just that these proposals come from the most stupid arab leader makes me doubd their credibility, I mean it is Gadafi you are quoting..hello?
    How could Israel “behave” when it is own existance is denied by its neighbours, when it is under terrorist attacks every now and then reminding every Israeli of their “friendships” among their neighbours? Why do you guys always blame others?
    You need a solution? The only solution in YOUR mind is the disparition of Israel, which , I garantee you, is not going to happen, the other solution is that arabs stop dreaming of destrying Israel, and try to build economic relashionships w/ Israel as a step to make Israel part of the area’s economy.

  10. It may be that Israel can be defined as a Crusader state, a European occupier. And of course the Crusader states failed and would fail again, surrounded by the undying enmity of their neighbors. Whether that enmity is justified, whether or not Israel is a Crusader state is at this point irrelvant. The Latinate Kingdoms did not go quietly; neither will Israel. The Templars and the Hospitaliers had no nukes; Israel does. The Crusaders had a place in Europe to go back to. Jews were slaughtered and driven from Europe. They perceive of themselves as having their backs to the wall of their ancestral land and will emulate the defense of Masada if it comes to that. This conflict may well end in death and ashes for all. (Though I suppose the surviving combatants would try to beat each others’ brains out with rocks.)

    It seems plausible that civilzation has risen and fallen many times on this planet, only to each time be forgotten and the mistakes repeated. As a species, we’re genetically predestined to self-extinction. (And, given our flaws, is that such as bad thing?) As Darwin noted, species either adapt or they fail. We’re failing.

    [MMM: Best wishes to Eman and I do hope she’s fast recovering. And do take care of yourself, too.]

  12. the 1500 lebanese pepole murdered from july 12 till august 14 this summer by israelian army would be alive…
    It wouldn’t take me 2 hours every day to go to work (25km), because of the damaged bridges and immense holes all the way long…
    the 18 years civil war in lebanon would never be…
    rafik hariri would be alive…
    I would have a house in my village…
    12 of my friends who died while defending our land, would still be medecine students!!!

  14. The Sykes-Picot agreement between the French and British after WWI made a big difference because it partitioned the Middle East as we know it from a vast empire into nation-states. People should look to that instead of “blaming” Israel.

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