Over 5,000 Palestinians have been killed by the Israeli army since 2000. Since the outbreak of the second Palestinian Intifada in September 2000, until late January 2007, the Israeli army has killed 5,050 Palestinian men, women and children, wounded 49,760 others and detained 10,4000 others. 351 Palestinian women have been killed, 150 patients have died at checkpoints and 66 others have been killed due to beating by Israeli settlers. 36 medical staff have been killed, 9 members of the press, and 220 sportsmen.
According to B
We had the violence in Northern Ireland for over 30 years and in the end, it was resolved around a table and not with guns. All those wasted lives, not just the people killed, but everyone whose lives were touched by the violence including the military and their families. It has always been thus, look at the end of the British Empire and independence for Cyprus, Kenya, Zimbabwe (although the latter is enough to break your heart) and the rest of our former colonies and dominions. Can people stop looking at the past and start looking at the future for their children?
It’s holy for both sides, and each side should respect that, plus its holiness should be a reason not to shed so much blood on it, instead of being the opposite!
No, it’s not. It’s only Holy Land for Christians and Jews. Claiming it’s Muslim Holy Land is bullshit. Muslims first went to that land as invaders, long after the time of the Prophet. That land has nothing to do with Islam, and everything to do with Christianity and Judaism. If Muslims revere that land at all, it’s only by EXTENSION – as the birthplace of Christianity and the center of Judaism. And no, the Prophet having a dream about being transported to Jerusalem doesn’t count. He was never physically in Jerusalem, and I had a dream monkey’s flew out of my ass. Does that make my ass Holy Land?
You gonna claim New York City is Muslim Holy land, next? Mecca and Medina are Islam’s Holy Lands. Stay clear of ours and we’ll stay clear of yours.
If you really want the violence to stop, then first you have to admit that land is not Muslim Holy Land, but it is Holy Land to Christians and Jews. Muslims don’t share Holy Land, and if they (wrongly) think there’s Muslim Holy Land in Israel, they’ll never stop killing for it.
@Craig: Well Craig, I’m sorry to tell you that it’s because of people who think like you do that the killing and loss of life goes on.
Personally, I don’t care if a land is holy or not, that’s beside the point, all I care about is the holiness of a human life, and that it should never be wasted no matter the reason.
Still, there is no such thing or sign that says this place or that is holy or not, it’s just that a group of people regard it as holy for some reason or another. Christians, Jews, Muslims, Buddhists and others regard different places on earth as holy, each for a set of different reasons, and others should respect that, just as they expect their beliefs to be respected.
Finally, I didn’t really appreciate the flying-ass-monkeys analogy, I think a level of respect should be maintained towards each other’s beliefs for the discussion to go on.
@mrschaieb: Very well said, I totally agree with you. People should really start thinking about leaving a better future for their children and grandchildren.
Damn. You got to Craig before I did, MMM. 🙂 (It’s always fun when They go looking for a Muslim to beat up but first encounter me. Must be disappointing.)
Craig reminds me that in the U.S. of the 1850’s there was a xenophobic, anti-immigrant group of demagogues and skulking low illiterates proudly calling itself the Know Nothings. Like their spiritual descendants of the Internet, the Know Nothings were secretive and secret–identities were generally cloaked unless, like any mob, they felt emboldened by sheer numbers in a particular region.
They disappeared in the mid 1850’s, their branches often absorbed by an emergent Republican Party. 🙂 (Abraham Lincoln, then an Ohio politician, kept them out of his state’s Republican party–a trend which obviously didn’t continue.)
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Balian of Ibelin: “So, what is Jerusalem worth?”
Saladin [accepting Ibelin’s surrender of Jerusalem]: “Worth? Nothing!” Walks away, then briefly turns back, laughing. “Everything!”
“It has fallen to us to defend Jerusalem, and we have made our preparations as well as they can be made. None of us took this city from Muslims. No Muslim of the great army now coming against us was born when this city was lost. We fight over an offense we did not give, against those who were not alive to be offended.”
Balian of Ibelin
(The above from the arguably more historically accurate parts of the movie “The Kingdom of Heaven,” in which Orlando Bloom, of all people, plays the historically tougher-than-nails Balian.)
Cheers.